Here’s how I picture the perfect scenario:
A “club sport” package for both 8- and 4-cylinder Mustangs that pulls out the rear seats while adding some extra bracing, track-friendly shocks and beefier brakes.
Pretty much like an upgraded version of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca.
Colin Wood said:
Here’s how I picture the perfect scenario:
A “club sport” package for both 8- and 4-cylinder Mustangs that pulls out the rear seats while adding some extra bracing, track-friendly shocks and beefier brakes.
Pretty much like an upgraded version of the Boss 302 Laguna Seca.
Let’s call the the V8 an “L1T” and the 4 cylinder a “1LE”.
Call me a cynic but I disagree. I don’t think this is a car made for driving enthusiasts to take to the track. I think this is a car made for the wealthy to park in their garages for 3-6 months and then resell on BAT for 2x MSRP.
At one time, didn’t you have to show some kind of “proof of racing intent” to purchase a new Cobra R?
David S. Wallens said:
At one time, didn’t you have to show some kind of “proof of racing intent” to purchase a new Cobra R?
And how many Cobra R’s have you ever seen on track?
David S. Wallens said:
At one time, didn’t you have to show some kind of “proof of racing intent” to purchase a new Cobra R?
IIRC you had to have a current SCCA competition license
This bodes very well for the hobby we all love. Why? Chevrolet will not let this stand and will have to come out with something to compete. So will others.
Hm.. not sure that this bodes well for our segment of the hobby. This is aimed at the McLaren / Ferarri / Lambo crowd, not most GRM readers (unless I’m just really poor compared to all of you). This was won’t ever depreciate down to what a used E46 costs.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s awesome that they’re making it but I actually think that the Honda HPD Si for $55K (and even $90K Global Spec Miata) are closer to the mark for continuing our sport.
I’d very much like to see more ~$50K production race cars from manufacturers. Maybe if everything from the Golf GTI to the GR86 or even a Local Spec Miata was made without fancy sequential boxes and race electronics but just basic racing upgrades while keeping costs down for club / regional racing.
In reply to QuikMcshifterson :
The Global Cup MX5 was only $53k when introduced. They built about 100 at that price which was way too good a deal. The cost is up to $82k now, and it looks like the sequential box is an option if you’re not going to race in the pro series.
Price list
In reply to tyronejk :
Just because a product is specifically “made for” one market segment, does not preclude it from being bought by other segments of the market too… And that’s (falsely) assuming the market segments are mutually exclusive, rather than overlapping significantly.
Much like trucks, it’s far too easy for outsiders to make judgy assumptions about how high dollar limited production track cars are or aren’t being used based purely on their extremely limited and heavily (confirmation) biased observations.
The continued support for enthusiast targeted offerings across manufacturers and price ranges is certainly good for all enthusiasts, and that certainly includes Corporate Mcstuffypants seeing the value in opening the budget for these types of ‘engineers gone wild’ kinds of halo endeavors. The top of the market tends to lead the trends.
Javelin said:
David S. Wallens said:
At one time, didn’t you have to show some kind of “proof of racing intent” to purchase a new Cobra R?
And how many Cobra R’s have you ever seen on track?
Back in the day–like 1995–the Toyohawk grids were full of them.
300K for a Mustang? By the time you get a Vette race ready how much is in it? Probably more. Could be a bargain in the short run. The yellow 3 wishes it was only 300K.
In reply to tyronejk :
I’m betting my little WRX sees more track time than an entire years’s worth of GTD production run will ever see.
tyronejk said:
Call me a cynic but I disagree. I don’t think this is a car made for driving enthusiasts to take to the track. I think this is a car made for the wealthy to park in their garages for 3-6 months and then resell on BAT for 2x MSRP.
Which is the car’s fault… in no way at all, actually.
In reply to Colin Wood :
Put it on a serious weight loss program, start by tossing the those hideous display screens. Wouldn’t mind a digital display if it had actual sensors displaying real information, not inferred stuff dreamed up by computer algorithms. Basic HVAC, etc.
Reminds me of when I purchased my 2012 Boss 302. Salesman slides these various brochures across the table to me. He starts explaining each one, “this one is for the Satellite radio”, me “Ah, the car doesn’t come with that”, Salesman “Oh?” After a few more similar exchanges the salesman admits I seem to know more about the car then he does, then he explains he mostly sells pickups. But on the bright side I got what I wanted for my trade and no dealer mark up on the car. Final bit on the car purchase. Why was the dealer so agreeable on the deal? The deal was ALL PROFIT. The dealership had won the car in a drawing at a Ford Motor Company 2013 New product show. The usual throw your business card in a fishbowl for prize drawings during the show.
In reply to Colin Wood :
They already have the Mustang Dark Horse R with S about to come out. Mustang R is not street legal. I’m pretty sure same with the S.
In reply to Colin Wood :
They already have the Mustang Dark Horse R with S about to come out. Mustang R is not street legal. I’m pretty sure same with the S.
I think it’s good news for the hobby.
It’s so far out of my price range that It’s not anything I ever have to worry about but frankly if I did have that kind of coin I could run a Wolf GB08 or a Formula Atlantic.
Of course if you’re a Mustang guy this would be the ultimate must have.
In reply to tyronejk : Sadly, I agree. They’ll be sold to existing Ford preferred customers …the ones who keep their GT40s hidden and unused till they’re resold at profit to someone else hoping to capitalize
In reply to Colin Wood :
They do have a full range of options in the S650 range for track:
1. Daily/Track car – GT PP1 will do the trick with some upgrades.
2. More Track focused daily – Dark Horse Handling Pack
3. T1 rce car out the showroom floor – Dark Horse R
4. New GT4 car for your race activities in the upcoming season – Mustang GT4
5. Track car to take to Le Mans and win a class win – Mustang GT3
6. A car to take to Nurburgring and have some fun while you also have your Ford GT there – Mustang GTD
And somewhere between 2-3 you have the Dark Horse S which is a tunned down version of the R.
I think Ford is very well positioned in the Track Days going crowd covering all the bases. I do think they are doing what Porsche are doing when segmenting the track going crowd.
bnight said:
I think Ford is very well positioned in the Track Days going crowd covering all the bases. I do think they are doing what Porsche are doing when segmenting the track going crowd.
It is amazing to see the huge number of 911 GT3s at track days and so I can see Ford wanting to capitalize on that.
In reply to Javelin :
I haven’t seen on on track, but I’ve seen on AT a track. Some guy had a two car trailer at Mid Ohio. The front car was a Cobra R. Rusty rotors, dry rotten tires, tie down straps looked haggard. Guy said it hadn’t been off the trailer in some years. I didn’t understand it at all.
“If you’ve been worrying that the sun might be setting on gas-powered performance cars, I would argue that our friend Jim Farley’s move states rather definitively, “Not so fast.” “
..as long as you’re rich. I see no great evidence of automakers going to great lengths to ensure that the everyman with a day job and a mortgage will have access to a new gas powered enthusiast car on a budget. The Miata and the 86/BRZ are basically all that’s available for roughly 30k. You can get a new Mustang for that price but only with an automatic. The GTD is yet another rich person’s toy, and I have trouble mustering any interest for a vehicle that’s unlikely to ever be attainable to the rest of us.
Keith Tanner said:
The Global Cup MX5 was only $53k when introduced. They built about 100 at that price which was way too good a deal. The cost is up to $82k now, and it looks like the sequential box is an option if you’re not going to race in the pro series.
And if I had the coin to throw away… I’d still really want one (with the sequential box just because).
It’s cool they are trying to go head to head with Porsche for the very well heeled track day crowd, but seems risky to not undercut their price point.
Probably won’t matter, with limited supply of gt3rs, Ford will likely easily sell all they care to make.
In reply to Driven5 :
It’s true that I’m making assumptions here but one doesn’t need personal experience to know what buyers are doing with cars. We’ll see in a year’s time how many sub-1,000k mile examples are listed on BAT for more than MSRP. When people are paying $500k for $300k of performance, they’re either paying $200k for the cool factor (more than likely a small minority) or paying $200k for a speculative investment.
Imagine getting the ultimate version of your favorite car, without the hastile of making sure everything fits and works together. No shop delays, no waiting on parts, just get in and drive.
dannyp84 said:
“If you’ve been worrying that the sun might be setting on gas-powered performance cars, I would argue that our friend Jim Farley’s move states rather definitively, “Not so fast.” “
..as long as you’re rich. I see no great evidence of automakers going to great lengths to ensure that the everyman with a day job and a mortgage will have access to a new gas powered enthusiast car on a budget. The Miata and the 86/BRZ are basically all that’s available for roughly 30k. You can get a new Mustang for that price but only with an automatic. The GTD is yet another rich person’s toy, and I have trouble mustering any interest for a vehicle that’s unlikely to ever be attainable to the rest of us.
After tracking sport bikes, and owning a few cars that were bonkers fast (’13 Mustang GT Track Pack, ’13 135i w/DCT), a 2nd gen BRZ or ND Miata is more than enough to have fun on the street (and track) and not spend $50k+.
I thought about a new Mustang or Camaro last spring when I ordered my BRZ, but realized, why? You’re going to have a car you can never wring out on the street.
In reply to z31maniac :
For that much money, just buy a used 09-16 Cayman S. It would be better on all accounts aside from consumables which I’d say is worth it.
If they get classified into Super Street for autocross and have a performance edge, some of them will be bought for that.
dannyp84 said:
I see no great evidence of automakers going to great lengths to ensure that the everyman with a day job and a mortgage will have access to a new gas powered enthusiast car on a budget. The Miata and the 86/BRZ are basically all that’s available for roughly 30k. You can get a new Mustang for that price but only with an automatic. The GTD is yet another rich person’s toy, and I have trouble mustering any interest for a vehicle that’s unlikely to ever be attainable to the rest of us.
I think this is an excellent point… and $30K is more like $35K+ at this point.
In addition, the mfgs. seem to be using the scarcity model as if you want an CTR FL5 or Manual 86/BRZ (and many others) you’re going to have a hell of a time finding one unless you’re willing to pay the dealership’s “market value adjustment” and waiting months.
There’s probably a long-term side effect of this and that will be that the new generation of enthusiasts / drivers might be much smaller. If you don’t make enthusiast as kids, many of them will simply find other things to care about instead and the mfgs. might find their customer base shrinking as older enthusiasts aren’t being replaced in the market with new ones.
350z247 said:
In reply to z31maniac :
For that much money, just buy a used 09-16 Cayman S. It would be better on all accounts aside from consumables which I’d say is worth it.
I looked at 12-16 Cayman S, I couldn’t find a nice, low mileage anywhere CLOSE to $32k. They were all $50k and up. Sure maybe you can find one not in greatest shape, or with a lot of miles. But buying a high mileage 6-10 year old Porsche isn’t why for me. Plus Porsche parts prices, etc. I make OK money, but I know I can’t truly AFFORD a Porsche vs being to BUY one. Which is a big difference.
At $50-55k, I’m buying a Mustang GT with $10k left for mods and a warranty.
EDIT: Or were you saying for $50k plus buy a used Porsche? A BRZ is $32k, so I thought you were saying for that much money. Because that’s what I actually bought.
In reply to David S. Wallens : That would be the Mustang GT3, which the GTD winks and nods to. I don’t know but would guess the GT3 race ready will be north of $500k, making the street legal GTD somewhat of a “bargain” street/track day rough equivalent.
It will be interesting to see who actually buys these.
I feel like this kind of thing reminds me of another time in history when similar things were happening…
In reply to Tom1200 :
Same people who get the P GT3.
And collectors. Ford tried to prevent them back in the 90’s from hiding race cars, but they bring so much money to the table, it’s hard to not let them collect cars.
