Toyota Prius hate in the enthusiast world is nothing new. Left lane hogging, environmental smugness and driver obliviousness have become comment section Prius clichés, and more than one coal roller has showed a confused Prius pilot who’s really boss by demonstrating the features of their (poorly tuned) diesel.
In Lemons, it turns out there’s Prius hate, too, but for a different reason. With a $500 vehicle price cap, some react with hostility to a relatively modern, high-resale-value machine. Of course, like most Lemons entries, there’s a history behind the car, and the one belonging to Rattlesnake Electric Sport’s 2007 Prius isn’t exactly spotless.
After cruising well into six-figure mileage in its first eight years on the road, the Prius (“Prius Touring Edition,” team captain Richard Hilleman clarifies) was totaled in a crash. Somehow, the wreck fried the car’s entire electrical network, including the complex computerized engine management system. “It was completely bricked,” Richard explains.
The car then sat abandoned in a side yard for several years until the idea of endurance racing came along. A professional race car fabricator with plenty of experience in traditional V8 hardware, Richard saw the potential in a high-efficiency machine for Lemons.
Applying his extensive knowledge of electronics to the project, Richard methodically diagnosed the issues with the dead Prius’ computer systems and was eventually able to coax it back to life. From there, a very basic Lemons build commenced, with the team adding the requisite safety equipment, eBay-sourced lowering springs, and 17×9-inch wheels. Everything else, including the “usually on fire” brakes, was left stock.
For kicks, the team stuck the car on a chassis dyno before hitting the track, and it registered a fairly uninspiring 88 horsepower. That, combined with a 3100-pound curb weight, would make for less than blistering speed.
But the efficiency benefits soon emerged in the car’s first Lemons race, with 3-plus-hour stints possible on the stock 12-gallon fuel tank. The driver roster didn’t hurt, either: With Richard’s connections in the serious racing world, several pro drivers, including Indy and American Le Mans veteran Memo Gidley (who, incidentally, drives a Prius on the street), were added to the lineup.
It turns out that pro drivers can handle 88 horsepower reasonably well, and by running long stints, avoiding mechanical issues and staying out of on-track trouble (feats, it should be noted, also possible with many other low-output cars), the Prius soon found itself near the top of the leaderboard. The team’s best result to date was an 11th overall finish in a field of 120-plus entries.
As a result of this success, Rattlesnake’s Prius has gained a lot of respect in the Lemons community, but there are still plenty of series followers that remain offended. Perhaps the real reason for that distaste isn’t smugness, price or anything else. Maybe they’re just afraid of losing to a Prius. –Nick Pon
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Good efficiency, ergonomics, visibility, ingress/egress….they probably made up 15 minutes each day on saved fuel and driver swaps. Those big ass truck mirrors probably help with situational awareness. Solid strategy.
I don’t know anything about Priuses. Are there any ways to upgrade the hybrid system to be more sporting? Increased regen so you don’t lay into the brakes as hard? I guess it would require a battery pack that would charge and dump faster. For racing, it would be great if you could harvest more of your braking and use the electric motor just to pull you through the apex and track-out.
Russian Warship, Go Berkeley Yourself said:
hunter47 said:
I’m more surprised to find out 17×9 wheels fit the little beast.
Years ago I raced against a 2nd gen Prius at CMP. It was on the original 300,000 mile battery. He’d get one flying lap and then like 3 laps of recharge. Kinda weird to have this thing fly past me, then I’d put busses on him the following lap.
I mean, the things generally do better under heavy use. Keep oil in the engine and keep it cool and find any possible weight savings… I don’t see why it couldn’t be a serious contender.
Also I’m just a big fan of the audacity.
I’ll admit that I probably spent way too much time driving the Prius in Forza Motorsport 3. Did driving the Nürurgring take up a good chunk of my afternoon? Yes. Was it worth it? Also yes.
I genuinely want to autocross a TNGA Prius. On the stock tires they put out similar grip levels as our Mk4 Supra did.
Granted tire technology has made leaps and bounds since the early 90’s, but still… that was a top shelf sports car in its day, and a new Prius generates over 0.9g in steady state turning, that’s bonkers.
In reply to hunter47 :
Hell thats more wheel and tire than I can fit under my subaru legacy…I’m stuck at 17×8
livinon2wheels said:
In reply to hunter47 :
Hell thats more wheel and tire than I can fit under my subaru legacy…I’m stuck at 17×8
That’s quitter talk! Sawzall and beer are cheap!
Guys, you’ll never believe this but I’m surprised to find out 17×9 wheels fit the little beast.
Tyler H said:
I don’t know anything about Priuses. Are there any ways to upgrade the hybrid system to be more sporting? Increased regen so you don’t lay into the brakes as hard? I guess it would require a battery pack that would charge and dump faster. For racing, it would be great if you could harvest more of your braking and use the electric motor just to pull you through the apex and track-out.
All of that stuff is controlled by software that nobody seems to have hacked yet. The best you can probably do is replace the batteries with LiFePO4 and keep them in a temperature range where the ECU gives best torque output.
The basic handling of these cars has been rather impressive. Putting a set of decent tires on has made it fun to drive considering the lack of power. The fact that there are so many gen 2s out there with 300K miles is proof they are tough but survival on a race track is another thing. Should be an interesting experiment.
In reply to porschenut :
I agree, SWMBO’s gen 2 Prius handles significantly better than I ever expected. I can imaging needing to leave it in “B” mode for decent track manners though, that way it goes to full regen as you let off the throttle. Otherwise, it’ll coast, but if you grab the brakes too suddenly it snaps right to full regen and makes it hard to get the amount of braking you wanted.
red_stapler said:
Tyler H said:
I don’t know anything about Priuses. Are there any ways to upgrade the hybrid system to be more sporting? Increased regen so you don’t lay into the brakes as hard? I guess it would require a battery pack that would charge and dump faster. For racing, it would be great if you could harvest more of your braking and use the electric motor just to pull you through the apex and track-out.
All of that stuff is controlled by software that nobody seems to have hacked yet. The best you can probably do is replace the batteries with LiFePO4 and keep them in a temperature range where the ECU gives best torque output.
I wonder if the “OpenInverter” projects aiming to open up the Prius Inverters for EV use will yield any gains in being able to juice out more MGU output even in hybrid setups?
The “big” issue (from my perspective) on the 2G & 3G Prius is having to use “maintenance mode” to cancel the traction/stability control.
Noddaz said:
Not too shabby!
The old “to win on the track you have to be on the track”.
Or something like that.
“To finish first, you must first finish.”
Is how I’ve always heard it, but it’s the same sentiment.
I always liked the Prius’s sloped front end and wondered how it would work out as a foundation for a gas hogging mid engined supercar with giant box flairs, especially the new 2024 one. Just think of how easy it would be to service the engine through the back doors.
I’ve autocrossed both a 1st gen and a 2nd gen prius (older family cars. The 1st gen is still around and running OK to this day but is rusting out and soon for the scrap heap I’m afraid) several times when my vintage machines were down. It would have been interesting to see someone put out a chip to allow more power to be quickly drawn out of the batteries.
The 1st gen was a decent handling little machine overall. Actually pretty fun to autocross – reasonably zippy around corners even with the weight and body roll. The 2nd gen prius, with the over-active SC and TC was a total pig; effectively unusable in Autocross, as well as extremely dangerous in daily driving. An absolutely terrible car when on anything but absolutely dry roads. It would enter *catastrophic* understeer if there was a single drop of moisture on the roads (and that’s with good tires), and forget about winter altogether – it was downright dangerous, with no ability whatsoever to accelerate or turn. I ended up defeating the “stay down” equipment on the (foot activated) parking brake so I could move my left foot over and slide the rears so that I could turn in the winter. The number of times that car refused to do anything other than go straight ahead… UGH. Never buy a 2nd Gen prius. Never. Far and away the most dangerous car I ever drove, even on the very best winter tires available in my region.
I always put tires with reasonable grip on a car once the first set wears out, so both of these were on tires considerably better than the original LRR tires.
panjandrum said:
I’ve autocrossed both a 1st gen and a 2nd gen prius
An absolutely terrible car when on anything but absolutely dry roads. It would enter *catastrophic* understeer if there was a single drop of moisture on the roads (and that’s with good tires),
Far and away the most dangerous car I ever drove, even on the very best winter tires available in my region.
I always put tires with reasonable grip on a car once the first set wears out, so
Yeah but did you try the 17×9 wheel and tire package? 🙂
In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :
Obviously I had the 17×9 wheel package. No self-respecting prius own can go without those! (In reality I had reasonably grippy “summer” street tires on those cars. It’s been a long time and I don’t remember the specifics. Probably something Tire Rack would list in their “high performance summer” range or possibly a high-performance all-season if a summer was unavailable. A tire type I can’t actually purchase anymore for most of my cars due to a lack of performance tires in many sizes. I have to race my 1976 912E on “Grand Touring All Seasons”, for example, as there no longer any true performance tires made to fit it.)
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