In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Often as not we don’t know. At least not until later on when we look at a time sheet.
I used to diligently try to keep a record of the settings in my note book but as you said there are too many variables.
Anyway it’s a hobby. Not a science experiment.
Are talking motorsports or are we talking testing? Because it doesn’t matter what the field is, proper testing has to have controlled variables. That’s not a motorsports thing, that’s just good data collection and test management.
The actual racing part of motorsports involves the setup team setting the car up as best as possible given the variables under their control, and the driver making the most of those setup decisions.
In reply to frenchyd :
Frenchy, you know it’s quite common now to get time feedback coming off a corner? Tail steps out a bit, the predictive lap timer says “that looked cool, but it just cost you 0.3s”. Makes a big difference in driver training, and also makes it pretty easy to do good back to back testing. Make one change, you know within a lap if it was good or bad. Then make another…
Yes, there are a lot of variables. Tires are the biggest ones (well, other than rain), which is why they’re always the go-to excuse for why someone’s lap times are slower than they should be. 🙂
That said, at tracks local to where I live in northern California, the best lap time for an identical car can vary by a couple seconds over the course of a day as the conditions change (air temp, track temp, amount of crap on the track surface, etc). It’s the same for everyone of course, but it can be maddening to try to figure out why I was doing 1:48 in the morning but can only manage 1:51 in the afternoon.
Keith Tanner said:
In reply to frenchyd :
Frenchy, you know it’s quite common now to get time feedback coming off a corner? Tail steps out a bit, the predictive lap timer says “that looked cool, but it just cost you 0.3s”. Makes a big difference in driver training, and also makes it pretty easy to do good back to back testing. Make one change, you know within a lap if it was good or bad. Then make another…
I suppose all that is possible. At my age, ( working on 75) I do it for fun. It’s fun to let the back drift out or all 4 wheels for that matter. Winning simply isn’t a priority. I’ve got trophy’s already. I’ve raced my hero’s.
Very content to be a grid filler. I’ll find a friend to dice with, keeping my eyes on the mirror so I can stay out of others way.
Fun article, but we all know what an answer like that is. He was slower and knew it. Moreover, he was embarrassed that he has spent the money to get the top-of-the-line hardware but it was being laid bare that he clearly didn’t know how to use it well.
Maybe a better article would be one on learning how to accept and own being slow.
I’m slow. My car is slow. I’m really bad at braking (I always brake WAY too early) and I probably have a tendency to overdrive the front end. I’m pretty much always last or second to last (overall!)
When I finish my big car project, the car will be faster, but I’ll still be slow. I’ll probably at least still be last in class.
And that’s ok. Because technically we’re all fast. Basically the moment you set foot on track you’re faster than 99.9% of the driving population, including all your buddies who are really into cars but never nut up and actually turn a wheel in anger.
Somehow I need more people to become ok with being slow. It’s physically wearying for me to listen to somebody talk about how their tire pressure was off by 1.5 psi and the moon was waxing so that’s why they’re not laying down lap times that would make Lewis Hamilton blush.
So a guy in a bone stock 1979 Honda Civic crushed your lap times when you were driving a 911 GT3. So what? Did you have fun? Did you learn how you could be a bit faster yourself next time? It’s not like the guy is going to take your job (unless racing cars is your job). Maybe your wife and kids will say “Father, who provides for us, you are slow. We’re going to live with 1979 Civic guy instead. He is a true father figure.” Maybe that happens. I don’t know. But it hasn’t happened to me yet.
Be ok with being slower than the next guy. I know we’re racing, but technically, I don’t think that’s actually what we’re there at the track to do.
Well said
You’ve got the right attitude for Vintage racing. Go as fast as you can within your ability to remain in control.
That is one of the things I find to be fun. Finding out not just what effect the variables have, but discovering what those variables even are.
Can I fix a corner exit understeer issue by a suspension setup change, an alignment change, a corner entry speed change, a line change, a driver inputs change? How will altering those variables affect the rest of the lap? Is my perceived problem actually the fast way and the real issue is my perception?
Keith Tanner said:
Frenchy, you know it’s quite common now to get time feedback coming off a corner? Tail steps out a bit, the predictive lap timer says “that looked cool, but it just cost you 0.3s”. Makes a big difference in driver training, and also makes it pretty easy to do good back to back testing. Make one change, you know within a lap if it was good or bad. Then make another…
And now I want to know what predictive lap timer tells me how cool I looked. On second thought, I probably don’t.
In reply to RadBarchetta :
One of the G meter things had a yaw sensor, if you feel that excessive yaw is cool. I know my Garmin will log “hang time” but it does not count carrying a tire as hang time.
If you’re timing, you care about how fast you’re going. If you really don’t care, don’t measure it.
When I’m out having fun, I don’t run a timer. People ask me what my time at Laguna Seca is, my answer is “I have no idea” because I’ve never actually run a lap timer there. I’ve had a lot of fun there and I’ve run hundreds of laps around the track.
But at our local track, I can tell you all sorts of information about lap times and setup and driving choices, because I drive there for both development and for speed.
Keith Tanner said:
Are talking motorsports or are we talking testing? Because it doesn’t matter what the field is, proper testing has to have controlled variables. That’s not a motorsports thing, that’s just good data collection and test management.
The actual racing part of motorsports involves the setup team setting the car up as best as possible given the variables under their control, and the driver making the most of those setup decisions.
That’s was one of my main takeaways from Donohue’s The Unfair Advantage.
I usually lead off my response with a lap time…
….and then append the list of excuses on why it wasn’t what I or the car are really capable of.
Fortunately, I don’t have the $s to Q on the pole, run away and win. I’m going on 73 and think I have more fun passing as many as possible. If it rains, I may still get a small reward for 1st in class or podium overall. I’m really just continue to feed my addiction.
Throw my friend Chas in my car and he’ll go 4-5 seconds faster than me. He’s just more comfortable with high speed slip angle than I am, plus is willing to push harder everywhere vs I’m more cautious in a few high consequence turns. Just that simple. I compete against myself, and try to improve my skills, while having as much fun as possible.
Time of day makes a huge difference, the second morning session is where I usually set my fastest times, it’s just too hot in the afternoon to set a PB anymore.
That perfect lap is out there.
docwyte said:
Throw my friend Chas in my car and he’ll go 4-5 seconds faster than me. He’s just more comfortable with high speed slip angle than I am, plus is willing to push harder everywhere vs I’m more cautious in a few high consequence turns. Just that simple. I compete against myself, and try to improve my skills, while having as much fun as possible.
Time of day makes a huge difference, the second morning session is where I usually set my fastest times, it’s just too hot in the afternoon to set a PB anymore.
Perhaps he started driving in a place with snow and ice in the winter? 6 months of the year sliding around teaches you car control?
Haha. It sounds like golfing to me. Dozens of variables, many of which are out of my control….. and then there is how I am swinging the club that day………
Ok, I’ve read through the article twice now, and I think some of you are missing the point.
There was absolutely no mention of whether Mr. GT3 was slow or fast, or even if he looked slow or fast on track, just that there are MANY variables that contribute to a lap time, and being off in any single one of them can keep you from setting the best possible time.
In reply to frenchyd :
I have plenty of car control skills. I just have more self preservation and really like having my car in its current state skills as well. One of my friends has no issues balling up cars on track, he’s done it several times already. He’s always going to be faster than me because of that, I have no desire to ball up a car on track.
frenchyd said:
In reply to OJR :
Yes at our age it is an addiction and it must be fed.
I agree racing is an addiction – at almost any age.
The variables are what makes it fun. Trying to harness a large number of variables and improve your performance is a challenge and a fun one. In times events sure you compare yourself to others but it’s even better to see how you improve over time. I really enjoy seeing how much time I can shave off on a rallycross course over 5 or more runs. Figuring out where to go harder and faster is cool. Figuring out where to go slower to get a faster time is even cooler.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
I loved doing that in my youth. Make that little 3.8 play with the big boys. 5-6000 cc even 7000 if it wasn’t well driven.
But with age I lost a lot of the edge I used to have. There is a reason pro’s stop in their 40-50’s
But the addiction makes me want to hear that V12 screaming and a need to get the car on the knife edge of control. Even if that edge is further back than it was a while ago.
